What happened at last night's “The Papal Visit should not be a State Visit” London debate?

On the eve of Wednesday 1st September 2010, at Conway Hall in London, supporters and opposers of Pope Benedict XVI’s visit in two weeks time being a state visit, became the audience to human rights activist Peter Tatchell, philosopher AC Grayling (both stating their cases against) along with Catholic Voices co-founder Austen Ivereigh and Fr. Christopher Jamison of Worth Abbey (speaking for). This Protest the Pope Campaign debate was chaired by Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee.

I arrived at about 18:50. The place was already so full, that I was kept outside for a good fifteen minutes before I managed to get in by stating that I’m a voluntary communications pilgrim for the Papal Visit. In all honesty, this was already a test of my strength as I had all these anti-Catholic ‘Pope Nope’ t-shirt wearing loud-mouths around me, that I was a little nervous to shout my humble position out – plus I was wearing a blatant Benedict XVI hoodie (check out Catholics with Attitude website!) that I actually feared one particular grumpy old man (as I’d like to put it) might pick up on and start abusing me about.

Right from the start of the debate, there was a lot of shouting from the Humanist supporters – and no, I don’t mean civilised shouts of agreement or disagreement, but actually almost barbaric screams of war! May I repeat the word ‘almost’. As a Catholic, I want to say how pleased I am with the way Catholics behaved, and voiced their opinions. Of the two sides, reasons for the Pope’s state visit were by far the most succinctly argued, calmly delivered, and least abusive.

Key arguments I picked up on from both sides were:
AC Grayling (against state visit)
- The Pope and his Catholic Church are being given a platform for amplification disproportional to the size of their representation (my summary, not his own words) and being paid for by the UK tax payer.
- All Churches are self-constituted and any self-constituted institution ought to pay it’s own way.
- The Catholic Church is a criminal conspiracy with members committing crimes and those crimes being protected (he used another word here but didn’t get it down) by the hierarchy higher  up.

Fr. Christopher Jamison (for state visit)
- The Pope is coming by invitation of the Queen and British government to address the country and the future of the secular society.
- The Catholic Church is a global contributor to civil society through its schools, its work within the community such as homelessness and the environment.
- The Pope will highlight three things the Catholic Church strives to achieve (my own words, not his), and improve the world with: love, hope and the common good.
- The Vatican state is the first united nation.

Peter Tatchell (against state visit)
- The Pope applauds condemnation of war and poverty, opposes womens’ ordination as well as IVF, and disagrees with embryonic stem cell research.
- As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, he ordered all child sex abuse cases to go to him, and refuses to give those files to the Police. It’s a cover-up.
- Pope is morally adrift proposing to make Pius XII a saint.

Austen Ivereigh (for state visit)
- In a Tablet survey (out today or tomorrow), only 5-6% of the country oppose the Pope’s visit.
-The Pope is right about AIDS in Africa.
- Pius XII defended the Jews, saving more from death than any other organisation.
- The Pope wishes the law to balance freedom and rights.

Sorry I didn’t pick up on any facts here – I wanted to refer to other sources for those given at the debate, and I've found one! Paul Sims, a blogger for newhumanist.org writes a better account of the facts shared. Please click here.

After the speakers had their say, it was time for Q&A, in which an abuse victim called Sue spoke out (this was sad for all us Catholics in the room to hear), one (I presume) African (who sounded like he was either born in this country, or has lived here a very long time) shouted hysterically for the Pope to leave Africa alone, and that they can look after themselves.

 

The majority of the people who opposed the state visit and voiced their opinions, echoed that the Pope can come to this country, but that it shouldn’t be funded by their tax money. One woman who called herself a Catholic is opposing the state visit because of the stance the Pope has taken on women ordination, and that there are strong views for reform. Not really sure how that makes her wholly Catholic (since our creed testifies to our belief in the 'Holy Catholic Church'), but anyhow, she was attacked back by someone responding that you can’t just be half-Christian, or Catholic, and agree with only some of the teachings. You either ARE Christian, or you’re NOT. This man was probably an anti-Catholic, as opposed to anti-Pope-State-Visit! One Catholic woman, Gemma Simmonds is a sister of the Congregation of Jesus, stated her views for the Pope’s visit being a state visit (footage shown above), and another defended Catholic womanhood by arguing that the Papal Visit will benefit women worldwide – not just our country.

The turn-out was great. Both sides had chances to give their opinions, although I do feel that the Catholic voice was mocked and ridiculed over by the opposition. It was very clear, that many people weren’t there to listen to our arguments for the state visit (as Austen Ivereigh of Catholic Voices later told me). Just shout.

Please visit my youTube channel if you're interested in hearing what some of the Catholic audience thought of the debate.